Talk:Air traffic controller

NPOV problems

This article is interesting, but has some creeping NPOV problems which need fixing Darkov 17:31 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Well, it definately has a pro-controller POV. On the other hand, whether that's justified is hard for anyone not a controller to estimate, and I can't imagine a controller not having the same POV :). I'd have to say that if controllers had the same error rate as my own profession, computer science, it would be horrendous. -- Pakaran 20:39, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I'd simply suggest smoothing out some 'always'es and 'never's, even if it's just adding 'almost' beforehand. But I know too little about the profession to know how much to adjust where... Radagast 04:19, Feb 27, 2004 (UTC)

This article seems to have been sitting for ages with little in the way of changes. It would appear to have been written by an ATC and have a very significant bias. I am always very wary of claims such as:

At any one moment only one person can 'have the picture' in a given situation: a concept which is incomprehensible outside air traffic control.

I doubt that aviation psychologists would agree with that assertion. I also doubt that only one person could ever 'have the picture' or else ATCs could never hand over their load to someone else. One solution would be to delete the article completely and wait for someone else to enter something which was hopefully less partisan. A less radical approach would be to remove all of the absolute statements and see what people do about that. The article on air traffic control is much more balanced but is very much written from a regular public transport perspective. --CloudSurfer 07:58, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The article still appears to have some NPOV problems. For months this article has had a has a "very defensive, pro-air traffic control tone and doesn't really read like an encyclopedia article". -- FirstPrinciples 05:46, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)

Rewrite

I have some personal knowledge of this topic -- fairly close acquaintance with an ATC and I've been given a behind-the-scenes tour of his center. (If you ever get that chance, jump on it!) Anyway, the guy who wrote this original must have been an ATC with some "issues", because half of it is pretty much saying "you can't computerize us", which is more or less a union position but the controllers are generally much more comfortable with technology and have their own frustrations at FAA shortfalls in this area. I hope that my edits remove 80% of the NPOV and the reorganization of the content and addition of some new issues help to broaden the article and make it worthwhile.

I did keep wondering why this profession needs a page of its own, when few others do. I tried to make it complement air traffic control as much as I could. I think it needs a couple of once-overs by someone else at this point; I'm pretty worn out by this effort! Frankly, I wish I'd just written a new article instead of trying to salvage the old -- it was like getting the tiger by the tail. --Dhartung | Talk 01:05, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Do you think the article should be merged with Air Traffic Control? It might be for the best. -- FirstPrinciples 01:47, Dec 12, 2004 (UTC)

P.S. The article is now 10000% better :) -- FirstPrinciples 04:06, Dec 12, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the kudos! I did consider that but I didn't want to contemplate merging until I saw what I could salvage. I did try to differentiate some professional issues that aren't necessarily intrinsic to the other article. If someone wants to tackle the merge, they have my blessing ... --Dhartung | Talk 08:14, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's looking fairly good now; I've removed the attention and NPOV notices. I don't think merging with the ATC article is desirable; this article can focus on the aspects of the controller's job. -R. S. Shaw 22:04, 2004 Dec 12 (UTC)

Major rewrite

Hello all. I did a major rewrite of this page a couple of days ago. I thought there were some misconceptions and inaccuracies and to clear those up, I wound up with something that almost is an "air traffic control" article instead of "air traffic controllER."

However, the inaccuracy of statements that tools are little changed since the 1940s and that strips are passed from one controller to the next fairly screamed for revision. I know it needs some links, and when I get a chance to do some surfing, I'll try to insert some.

I was a controller for 30 years (1968-98) and I tried very hard to maintain NPOV. I am open to any and all suggestions including STFU if you think that's needed. Also, I will be happy to answer any questions.

Something to consider is that there is a world of difference between tower controllers and their operations and center controllers and their operations. It's hard to do an article on the subject without at least noting, if not delineating, those differences.

LRod 216.76.216.7 23:52, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We certainly welcome your input, but did you realize there already is an air traffic control article? Most of what you added belongs there. If you see above I wasn't motivated to tackle merging the two. Wikipedia tends more toward defining terms like air traffic control and farming than air traffic controller and farmer, so ultimately this probably should be one single article that has only partial focus on the professional ATC, if only because that is such a leading temptation to the kinds of POV problems that this article had to begin with. --Dhartung | Talk 00:03, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I realized that, after I had already done the writing. That was the genesis of my 'I wound up with something that almost is an "air traffic control" article instead of "air traffic controllER." ' comment.

I concur that whatever part of what I wrote that people think is valuable should be merged with whatever part of the "control" article people think is worth retaining. A "controller" article then should probably just be something to the effect of "one who performs ATC" with a redirect to the "control" article.

After 59 years I know that my writing is technically competent, but since it's very hard to self evaluate POV, could you tell me if it seemed so to you or did it come across reasonably neutral?

Thanks.

LRod 216.76.216.7 03:06, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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The last part of this, should that not be "....appointment after reaching 31 years of duty...."? (FDA) are either banned or would require an air traffic controller to apply for a Special Consideration Medical Certificate and undergo stringent and continuous monitoring of the underlying medical condition. Almost universally, trainee controllers begin work in their twenties and retire in their fifties. This is due to an FAA requirement that trainees begin their training at the Academy no later than their 31st birthday, and face mandatory retirement at age 56.[5] However, retired military air traffic controllers may qualify for .appointment after reaching 31 years of age — Preceding unsigned comment added by G Wijnsma (talk • contribs) 16:57, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - FA23 - Sect 202 - Thu

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2023 and 14 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): EdereOmnes (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by EdereOmnes (talk) 14:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Air traffic controller OR air traffic control specialist

The very first sentence contradicts the title of the page, which one is correct now? Squawk7700 (talk) 22:15, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

I changed it now to Air Traffic Controller, if anybody disagrees I’d be happy to find a consensus Squawk7700 (talk) 08:44, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Removal 2014 Changes In The US

I’d like to remove the section mentioned in the title because a) president Trump revoked all mentioned protocols b) as only changes in the US are mentioned it seems a bit random c) the matter is being discussed and changed on a daly bases at the moment so it can’t always represent the current situation. Once the dust has settled I’d be open to add it back in with better context. Is this ok? Squawk7700 (talk) 07:09, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

I moved it to here for now, if anyone has any objections, I’d be happy to move it back if there’s a consensus.

==2014 changes in the United States==

In 2014, it was reported that in the United States, the Federal Aviation Administration had stopped giving preferential treatment to air-traffic controller applicants who had passed classes from the 36 FAA-approved college aviation programs across the United States, with some speculating it was due to too many white males being hired over minorities. The FAA says it "is blind on the issue of diversity". At the same time, the FAA also stopped giving preference to applicants who were military veterans with aviation experience. In addition, a group of external experts appointed by the Federal Aviation Administration emphasized the need for immediate action on Wednesday, November 15, 2023, to address safety concerns in the nation's aviation system. The two primary issues they highlighted were inadequate staffing levels among air traffic controllers and the existence of outdated technology. Squawk7700 (talk) 14:19, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

References

New article

I'm posting this here in case others here might be interested in editing this.

Brigida v. FAA

A Plumbing I Will Go (talk) 18:58, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

Planned Outline

As I’m reworking the article I made a small outline of how I want this article look, please let me know your thoughts, disagreements etc. Please note that the names are just to outline the content not how I want to call them in the article nessecairy.

Air Traffic Controller

Lead

History

Origins

…

Introduction of Radar and Radio Communication

…

Further Developments until today

…

(Here I’d want to reuse parts of the Computerization and the future section )

Roles (and Responsibilities)

Here I want to put a larger part of the already existing text to Area or en route / Aerodrome or tower / civilian or military (with corresponding sections)

Working Conditions

The already existing work patterns and stress sections (with corresponding sections)

Training and Qualifications

… Squawk7700 (talk) 11:36, 5 February 2025 (UTC)